In class we talked about how Alexander's forces lost very few men in comparison with the other side. In the battle against the indians some 23,000 Indians were killed opposed to the 200 or so from Alexander's side. Is this an exaggeration and praise on the part of the author, or is this a plausible account of deaths?
Alexander had Bessus' nose and tips of his ears cut off before he had him killed. We have seen this as punishment before, but why would Alexander do this if he was only going to kill him right after?
It seems that Arrian goes from a very positive spin on Alexander's actions to condemning them with our second set of readings (especially p99). Why might he do this? Also, is a "carousal" (p100) just a different name for a symposium?
Alexander seems very much like many of the Epic hero's we've discussed in previous classes, including those from whom Alexander was allegedly descended from. Although probably did share many of the traits we've attributed to epic hero's, is it possible that the authors of his deeds exaggerated or even made up some of his qualities so he would be remembered in a more heroic light?
Zander, My question kind of adds to the last one; do we know whether or not Alexander was as brutal as he is sometimes depicted? Or do modern historians think that that was to make him seem like Hercules?
Sara Welish My question also related a little bit to Maeve's. Alexander is often portrayed as very well liked but there were many conspiracies against him. Was his popularity exaggerated or is the amount of conspiracies normal?
Alexander had great difficulty convincing his men to stay on his campaign eastward. The lack of support from his troops led him to return back from whence they came. How far would he have gone if he had a group of soldiers with his tenacity? Would he have stopped before conquering everything humanly possible?
Throughout the reading we hear about missiles being fired back and forth between the armies of Alexander and his enemies. I was just curious to see if these missiles were specific projectiles, or if the term just referred to anything that could be thrown by a catapult.
We talked about the Macedonians new style of fighting and battle equipment as a part of their success. Did the Romans adopt these strategies too? Did Romans take from Macedonian fighting techniques?
Katie, Some of both, I expect. Arrian clearly wants to praise Alexander, and both his main sources Ptolemy and Aristobulus had good reasons to exalt his military accomplishments. Still, ancient battles (especially when against foreigners) often involved slaughters of the opposing side after they were routed. Herodotus' accounts of battles from the Persian Wars (Marathon and Plataea) have similar proportions--few Greeks and many Persians dead. Also Alexander's troops were better equipped and better trained than all those he faced.
Jordann, Where are you remembering this punishment from? Arrian considers it barbaric. Why do you think so?
Shannon, Notice his remarks at the end though. He clearly praises the man, though he feels the need to condemn certain actions. Carousal I think implies a drunken party, like a frat party gone wild. Symposium is one of the Greek words for a party. Carousal probably translates something more extreme.
Maeve, You have hit the nail on the head. The answer is yes. Ancient history wrote rhetorically and used various literary devices (that we often call poetic devices) to elevate their chief characters. One major narrative strategy was to compare their history's events and characters with other famous events and characters from myth and previous history. Which stories seem to have been invented or exaggerated for such a purpose?
Zander, What specific brutalities do you mean? Usually Heracles is seen as a positive model for Alexander. I am not sure how you are connecting Heracles with Alexander's brutalities. Heracles is generally described as using his strength for good or noble purposes. However, there are some ancient authors that criticize HEracles, but these are often poets, not historians.
Sara, What do you think? We each have to make up our minds (or not) based on the information we have in these ancient accounts. Could he have been both popular and hated?
Andrew, This is a question that ancient teachers of rhetoric (public speaking) would often ask their students to answer. Personally I do not think Alexander would have stopped until he died or reached the Pacific Ocean, maybe not even there. This is quite speculative though. It is amazing that he managed to survive as long as he did. He was very lucky so much so that the ancients believed him divinely blessed or fortunate, and this was one of the chief comparisons between Alexander and Caesar whose fortuna (luck) was often emphasized in propaganda and public discussion.
Doug, Missiles in ancient sources means any weapon used from a distance, thrown or shot: spears, darts, sling bullets/stones, catapult and ballista projectiles, and arrows.
Krysta, The Romans army was even more efficient than the Macedonians as they defeated them in the 2nd cent. BC. As far as I know, the Romans did not adopt any of their military gear or tactics from the Macedonians, though they did adopt stuff from their Italian neighbors.
In the account explaining how and why Alexander killed one of his best friends, Cleitus, Cleitus claims that he saved Alexanders life at Granicus river. But, he makes this claim as if Alexander did not already know this. Is it historically accepted that Cleitus did in fact save Alexanders life during that battle?.
Katie Burke
ReplyDeleteIn class we talked about how Alexander's forces lost very few men in comparison with the other side. In the battle against the indians some 23,000 Indians were killed opposed to the 200 or so from Alexander's side. Is this an exaggeration and praise on the part of the author, or is this a plausible account of deaths?
Jordann Markowitz
ReplyDeleteAlexander had Bessus' nose and tips of his ears cut off before he had him killed. We have seen this as punishment before, but why would Alexander do this if he was only going to kill him right after?
Shannon Potts
ReplyDeleteIt seems that Arrian goes from a very positive spin on Alexander's actions to condemning them with our second set of readings (especially p99). Why might he do this?
Also, is a "carousal" (p100) just a different name for a symposium?
Maeve Tischbein
ReplyDeleteAlexander seems very much like many of the Epic hero's we've discussed in previous classes, including those from whom Alexander was allegedly descended from. Although probably did share many of the traits we've attributed to epic hero's, is it possible that the authors of his deeds exaggerated or even made up some of his qualities so he would be remembered in a more heroic light?
Zander,
ReplyDeleteMy question kind of adds to the last one; do we know whether or not Alexander was as brutal as he is sometimes depicted? Or do modern historians think that that was to make him seem like Hercules?
Sara Welish
ReplyDeleteMy question also related a little bit to Maeve's. Alexander is often portrayed as very well liked but there were many conspiracies against him. Was his popularity exaggerated or is the amount of conspiracies normal?
Andrew Gordon
ReplyDeleteAlexander had great difficulty convincing his men to stay on his campaign eastward. The lack of support from his troops led him to return back from whence they came. How far would he have gone if he had a group of soldiers with his tenacity? Would he have stopped before conquering everything humanly possible?
Doug Ritchey
ReplyDeleteThroughout the reading we hear about missiles being fired back and forth between the armies of Alexander and his enemies. I was just curious to see if these missiles were specific projectiles, or if the term just referred to anything that could be thrown by a catapult.
We talked about the Macedonians new style of fighting and battle equipment as a part of their success. Did the Romans adopt these strategies too? Did Romans take from Macedonian fighting techniques?
ReplyDeleteKrysta Brown
AR
ReplyDeleteKatie,
Some of both, I expect. Arrian clearly wants to praise Alexander, and both his main sources Ptolemy and Aristobulus had good reasons to exalt his military accomplishments. Still, ancient battles (especially when against foreigners) often involved slaughters of the opposing side after they were routed. Herodotus' accounts of battles from the Persian Wars (Marathon and Plataea) have similar proportions--few Greeks and many Persians dead. Also Alexander's troops were better equipped and better trained than all those he faced.
Jordann,
Where are you remembering this punishment from? Arrian considers it barbaric. Why do you think so?
Shannon,
Notice his remarks at the end though. He clearly praises the man, though he feels the need to condemn certain actions. Carousal I think implies a drunken party, like a frat party gone wild. Symposium is one of the Greek words for a party. Carousal probably translates something more extreme.
Maeve,
You have hit the nail on the head. The answer is yes. Ancient history wrote rhetorically and used various literary devices (that we often call poetic devices) to elevate their chief characters. One major narrative strategy was to compare their history's events and characters with other famous events and characters from myth and previous history. Which stories seem to have been invented or exaggerated for such a purpose?
Zander,
What specific brutalities do you mean? Usually Heracles is seen as a positive model for Alexander. I am not sure how you are connecting Heracles with Alexander's brutalities. Heracles is generally described as using his strength for good or noble purposes. However, there are some ancient authors that criticize HEracles, but these are often poets, not historians.
Sara,
What do you think? We each have to make up our minds (or not) based on the information we have in these ancient accounts. Could he have been both popular and hated?
Andrew,
This is a question that ancient teachers of rhetoric (public speaking) would often ask their students to answer. Personally I do not think Alexander would have stopped until he died or reached the Pacific Ocean, maybe not even there. This is quite speculative though. It is amazing that he managed to survive as long as he did. He was very lucky so much so that the ancients believed him divinely blessed or fortunate, and this was one of the chief comparisons between Alexander and Caesar whose fortuna (luck) was often emphasized in propaganda and public discussion.
Doug,
Missiles in ancient sources means any weapon used from a distance, thrown or shot: spears, darts, sling bullets/stones, catapult and ballista projectiles, and arrows.
Krysta,
The Romans army was even more efficient than the Macedonians as they defeated them in the 2nd cent. BC. As far as I know, the Romans did not adopt any of their military gear or tactics from the Macedonians, though they did adopt stuff from their Italian neighbors.
Steve
ReplyDeleteIn the account explaining how and why Alexander killed one of his best friends, Cleitus, Cleitus claims that he saved Alexanders life at Granicus river. But, he makes this claim as if Alexander did not already know this. Is it historically accepted that Cleitus did in fact save Alexanders life during that battle?.